General Outdoors Discussions :
yeah, that's what general Lee thought too
I have alwys heard of the stereo type of Chinese people taking pictures, but since when did they get the reputation of stick-up artists as well?
'32ozpoliticallycorrect
Gremlin needs help ...
Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Gremlin (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:00AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:00AM
... from his Pennsylvania buddies.
My buddy up here is into cowboy shoots (if ya don't know don't ask) and has always wanted to go to the Gettysburg re-enactment. Well, it's the forty-fifth anniversary and we're going.
It's on 4, 5 and 6 July and we were told to reserve early.
Does anyone know of a cheap motel chain in the area? Any thoughts or tips?
Doug
My buddy up here is into cowboy shoots (if ya don't know don't ask) and has always wanted to go to the Gettysburg re-enactment. Well, it's the forty-fifth anniversary and we're going.
It's on 4, 5 and 6 July and we were told to reserve early.
Does anyone know of a cheap motel chain in the area? Any thoughts or tips?
Doug
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:40AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:40AM
My son and I stayed in Chambersburg when we went a few years ago. I can't remember where we stayed. I think it was the Days Inn. Seeing that I'm on a tight budget I know it wasn't that expensive.
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:48AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:48AM
There is a Days Inn and a Comfort Inn and there used to be one of those Budget 8 Inns or whatever they are called... I think that it is still there...
I think it was the comfort in that I stayed in about 4-5 years ago... You better book soon...
There is also a campground Round Top near there.. i have stayed there about 5 times although I know that they book up pretty quicklly for that week..
Have a blast, Gettysburg is a neat place to visit!!!!!
'32oz
I think it was the comfort in that I stayed in about 4-5 years ago... You better book soon...
There is also a campground Round Top near there.. i have stayed there about 5 times although I know that they book up pretty quicklly for that week..
Have a blast, Gettysburg is a neat place to visit!!!!!
'32oz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2008 11:49AM by 32ozgatorade.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:50AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:50AM
Talking about it makes me want to go back...
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:58AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:58AM
We should to a TT/Latta trip there.. we can camp at the campgrounds and hike the battle field...
I always end up either up at Culp's Hill or down in Devil's Den.... We can do the ghost tour one night.....
'32oz
I always end up either up at Culp's Hill or down in Devil's Den.... We can do the ghost tour one night.....
'32oz
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: stratusloop (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 11:58AM
Date: May 07, 2008 11:58AM
Here's a link to most of the hotels in Hanover, PA which is about 17 miles East of Gettysburg.......
[maps.google.com]
By the way, the Hampton Inn in Hanover is booked for the dates you posted......
York is about 30 miles East of Gettysburg right down RT30.......
Here's a link to most of the hotels in York, PA
[maps.google.com]
[maps.google.com]
By the way, the Hampton Inn in Hanover is booked for the dates you posted......
York is about 30 miles East of Gettysburg right down RT30.......
Here's a link to most of the hotels in York, PA
[maps.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2008 12:00PM by stratusloop.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 12:03PM
Date: May 07, 2008 12:03PM
We should, gatorade!
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: spindle (IP Logged)
Date: May 07, 2008 01:25PM
Date: May 07, 2008 01:25PM
All the major chains are in the area. Book now if you can, seriously. Crazy numbers of people go there for this.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Geobeet (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 08:52AM
Date: May 08, 2008 08:52AM
What Spindle said.
The new visitor center opened this spring.
You should also get into one of the many ranger walks they hold from July 1 to 3. They are outstanding and often discuss little-known aspects of the battle. They visit the sites of whatever they discuss, answer questions, and sometimes get their audiences to participate. Last year several different groups of tourists got to experience first hand being in Pickett's Charge.
For Pennsylvania residents, Pennsylvania Cable Network broadcasts all of those ranger walks. They run pretty much non-stop for the three days. I always catch as much of it as I can, but can't catch it all.
The new visitor center opened this spring.
You should also get into one of the many ranger walks they hold from July 1 to 3. They are outstanding and often discuss little-known aspects of the battle. They visit the sites of whatever they discuss, answer questions, and sometimes get their audiences to participate. Last year several different groups of tourists got to experience first hand being in Pickett's Charge.
For Pennsylvania residents, Pennsylvania Cable Network broadcasts all of those ranger walks. They run pretty much non-stop for the three days. I always catch as much of it as I can, but can't catch it all.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: thriftyhiker (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:10PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:10PM
Quote:32ozgatorade
Have a blast, Gettysburg is a neat place to visit!!!!!
'32oz
yeah, that's what general Lee thought too
Why buy it when you can make, borrow, or beg for it?
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:12PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:12PM
Not really.. There weren't as many monuments back then...
Did you ever wonder why a lot of the battles took place in National Parks?
Odd, don't you think?
'32oz
Did you ever wonder why a lot of the battles took place in National Parks?
Odd, don't you think?
'32oz
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:18PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:18PM
The Duke's of Hazard were at Gettysburg? I bet they could have jumped The General Lee from Big Roundtop to Little Roundtop and changed the tide of battle.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: thriftyhiker (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:23PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:23PM
...and they would have paused for commercial while the car was still in the air
Why buy it when you can make, borrow, or beg for it?
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Geobeet (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:24PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:24PM
The Battle of Gettysburg started over a fight in one of the fast food joints now on the battlefield. The Confederates and Yankees were arguing over seating arrangements when a tour bus of senior citizens showed up and took all the seats. Then all hell broke loose.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 12:39PM
Date: May 08, 2008 12:39PM
I know you know this, but thats pretty much how it happened except it wasn't a fast food joint, it was a shoe factory that small units from each army thought they'd see if they could find. They found each other. And it wasn't a tour bus of senior citizens, it was a slow procession of other units that were sent over to find out exactly what the hell was all that shooting going on over there in that town the Southerners were supposed to be bypassing.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 01:03PM
Date: May 08, 2008 01:03PM
I'm so happy I never got my history lessons from you people!
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 01:14PM
Date: May 08, 2008 01:14PM
I think it was a tour bus. They were all chinese tourists with cameras around their necks. All hell broke loose cuz they were taking pictures and holding everyone up!
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: cocohead (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 01:17PM
Date: May 08, 2008 01:17PM
Hyways right tenjen!
How many times have you heard THAT
How many times have you heard THAT
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 01:22PM
Date: May 08, 2008 01:22PM
Now you gave him a big head....you should have just kept that to yourself :)
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 01:37PM
Date: May 08, 2008 01:37PM
You already gave me a big head. Geo just said I am right that you want to shoe it.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 02:12PM
Date: May 08, 2008 02:12PM
Quote:tenjen
I think it was a tour bus. They were all chinese tourists with cameras around their necks. All hell broke loose cuz they were taking pictures and holding everyone up!
I have alwys heard of the stereo type of Chinese people taking pictures, but since when did they get the reputation of stick-up artists as well?
'32ozpoliticallycorrect
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 02:35PM
Date: May 08, 2008 02:35PM
smart arse
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 02:36PM
Date: May 08, 2008 02:36PM
This isn't the two word thread.. you can say what you really feel..
'32oz
'32oz
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 02:37PM
Date: May 08, 2008 02:37PM
I did...in just two words
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Geobeet (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 02:55PM
Date: May 08, 2008 02:55PM
Twasn't shoes they wuz after. There weren't enough shoes in all Gettysburg for the Army of Northern Virginia. And if there had been any, Gen. Early would have cleaned them out when he marched through several days earlier, but he didn't take any either. He headed to York where he levied the town and saved it from burning up after the Union militia set fire to the covered bridge over the Susquehanna. Or maybe it was another tour bus. These things get all confused over time.
If you stand on Cemetery Ridge and look across at Seminary Ridge, you see the fast food joints. They are very conspicuous. This is no accident or mere coincidence. I have researched all this and I know I'm right. It was those damn pushy seniors! Most of the casualties in the entire battle were caused by senior citizens whacking soldiers over the head with canes and walkers. It was bloody hell.
If you stand on Cemetery Ridge and look across at Seminary Ridge, you see the fast food joints. They are very conspicuous. This is no accident or mere coincidence. I have researched all this and I know I'm right. It was those damn pushy seniors! Most of the casualties in the entire battle were caused by senior citizens whacking soldiers over the head with canes and walkers. It was bloody hell.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Nimblefoot (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 05:21PM
Date: May 08, 2008 05:21PM
Geo, what you says seems to be spot, on as conveyed to me by Nowslimmer, and he was there.
I had an epiphany today. It was so good, I think I'll have another.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Pennsy (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 05:51PM
Date: May 08, 2008 05:51PM
26 posts and nobody has stated the obvious. Gettsyburg is near York. EarthNsky and Lyra live in York. Gremmy, you and your friends are hereby invited to spend the weekend at the ENS residence. The only catch is that you'll have to take turns changing BabySky's diapers.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 07:17PM
Date: May 08, 2008 07:17PM
Geo, being serious, my understanding is that it wasn't the Army of Northern Virginia that was going to gettysburg to get shoes. Lee had no plans for gettysburg other than to pass it by. A small unit of the army went their on their own because they heard thjat was a shoe factory there and they thought they might scrounge up a few. I am not sure why the yanks (cavalry I think) were there but it was also a small unit. The two got to fighting over the last table and nearby units started feeding themselves into the battle.
Lee had no clue what was going on because JEB Stuart was out galavanting too far ahead and was available to offer intelligence about what was happening. Once Lee discovered that a good portion of his army had been committed to battle and that the yanks were pouring in, he decided to go ahead and fight imstead of pulling his troops back and moving on to his original objective.
I may be way off here, because its been a while since I sunk myself into civil way history. but thats how i remember it
BTW, very funny dig, Nimble. :)
Lee had no clue what was going on because JEB Stuart was out galavanting too far ahead and was available to offer intelligence about what was happening. Once Lee discovered that a good portion of his army had been committed to battle and that the yanks were pouring in, he decided to go ahead and fight imstead of pulling his troops back and moving on to his original objective.
I may be way off here, because its been a while since I sunk myself into civil way history. but thats how i remember it
BTW, very funny dig, Nimble. :)
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: sunnydayz (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 07:25PM
Date: May 08, 2008 07:25PM
There's a couple nice campgrounds near there--I live 45 min away and would be up for a meeting. btw--the one's that suffered the most in the battle were the horses. Many, many killed and maimed
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 09:17PM
Date: May 08, 2008 09:17PM
I am thinking about a weeeknd camping trip at Round Top campgrounds om Late July/early Aug... I have stayed there about 5 times and it is pretty decent...
We could then tour the battlefield, hit a pub, get drunk and take the ghost walk, before returning to the campground and talk with forklift elvis....
'32oz
We could then tour the battlefield, hit a pub, get drunk and take the ghost walk, before returning to the campground and talk with forklift elvis....
'32oz
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 10:19PM
Date: May 08, 2008 10:19PM
Why does forklift elvis always seem to end up on these trips??
I thought you guys pushed him over the edge on the last trip!
I thought you guys pushed him over the edge on the last trip!
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 08, 2008 10:23PM
Date: May 08, 2008 10:23PM
No he appeared on tke last one... Incognito.. I think...
'23oz
'23oz
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: EuroHigh (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 02:47AM
Date: May 09, 2008 02:47AM
You know, I AM kind of interested to know a bit more about the history of the US civil war. Not sure if what I learn on Latta or TT is historicly credible stuff though.
I can tell that the battle at the fast food stand and the skirmish with senior citizens is hocus-pocus. The event at the shoe factory I am not sure about. It sounds more like Hyway is describing the sort of rage when hordes of women fall in to town at the end of summer sales. But then, as every woman can tell you, shoes are a high commodity, that are worth fighting for. Right? So I think there could be a kernel of truth in that story?
I think I need to find a book that gives more historicly correct data than what I can read here.
I can tell that the battle at the fast food stand and the skirmish with senior citizens is hocus-pocus. The event at the shoe factory I am not sure about. It sounds more like Hyway is describing the sort of rage when hordes of women fall in to town at the end of summer sales. But then, as every woman can tell you, shoes are a high commodity, that are worth fighting for. Right? So I think there could be a kernel of truth in that story?
I think I need to find a book that gives more historicly correct data than what I can read here.
I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way!
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 06:47AM
Date: May 09, 2008 06:47AM
euro, many southern soldiers fought without boots or with boots that were falling apart. As troops go, they were poorly supplied. They took much of their supplies from yankees in the early part of the war when the south won battle after battle. Here's an interesting tidbit. many of the boots made for the southern soldier were box toed, which meant they would fit either right or left foot the same.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: 32ozgatorade (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 06:49AM
Date: May 09, 2008 06:49AM
[www.amazon.com]
Probably the best one volume book on the civil war...
Shelby Foote's 3 volume set us good
[www.amazon.com]
Grant's autobiography is one of the best ever written
Gordon Rhea has 4 great books on the overland campaign
'32oz
Probably the best one volume book on the civil war...
Shelby Foote's 3 volume set us good
[www.amazon.com]
Grant's autobiography is one of the best ever written
Gordon Rhea has 4 great books on the overland campaign
'32oz
If you have any problems with the site, just contact Matt
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: EuroHigh (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 07:28AM
Date: May 09, 2008 07:28AM
Thanks 32oz
Hyway, I am afraid most of my knowledge about this period is derived from such sources as...uhm, 'Gone With the Wind', or so...
;-)
I will try to find a good book.
Hyway, I am afraid most of my knowledge about this period is derived from such sources as...uhm, 'Gone With the Wind', or so...
;-)
I will try to find a good book.
I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way!
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: stratusloop (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 08:14AM
Date: May 09, 2008 08:14AM
Eurohigh......this here is my favourite book on the subject.....its an awesome read!


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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 08:22AM
Date: May 09, 2008 08:22AM
Yes, that is a great read.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 08:38AM
Date: May 09, 2008 08:38AM
There is nothing wrong with gettin your history from Gone With the Wind! I learned how to make a dress out of a curtain just from watching that movie...
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 08:46AM
Date: May 09, 2008 08:46AM
I learned how to make a medieval suit jacket out of a tent flap from "A Knights tale"
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 08:52AM
Date: May 09, 2008 08:52AM
That's great hyway. We should model my curtain and your tent flap one day. They're almost the same color too!
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: LtDan (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 09:27AM
Date: May 09, 2008 09:27AM
Whats really nifty is to talk to some of the "geopolitical" experts about the world consequences of the war.
I spent an evening at a party in Washington listening a Senior Professor who was discussing both sides of the conflict. He postulated an interesting fact. If ...and only IF the South had "gained independence" since they really weren't "fighting a civil war" since their intention was never to take over the US Government. But If, they had won. That nasty little war in Europe 50 years later (World War I) might have turned out much differently. The Professor proposed this theory.
1. The South "wins" in essence the agricultural part of the US is now a soveriegn nation. Given the growth of agricultural automation there is a real chance that Slavery would have disappeared in another 20 years just out of the cost effectivness.
2. The First World War starts, now remember the North was heavily Germanic, the South more related to the English/French connections. This would have meant there would be conflicting opinions on HOW to fight the war. Meaning most likely the American involvement might not have happened. The War would have dragged on with the Germans winning, then the British winning, then the French Surrendering until like many european wars it just freaking ended. No Treaty of Versallais no horrendous punishment on Germany/Austro Hungary...and even more improtantly there is a good possiblity the Rail Car with Lenin may never have been sent to Russia.
3. This not being the case the little Austrian Charlie Chaplain imitator would have had no "depression" to slip into power, there is a very real chance World War II might never have happened.
As it was there are some interesting things to remember about the "War of Northern Aggression (LOL)"
1. Unlike other Civil Wars in time there was no Whole Sale Murder of the losing side, sure there were the Carpet Baggers from the north, but what the heck the South got even when we suckered you into electing Jimmy Carter (LOL).
2. The real fact is the common American fought, it was not the "Rich SOUTHERNER" Versus the North. It was the common people and yes the South was decidedly at a loss because they were agriciltural where as the North was Industry.
And now History Buffs.
At the End of ...(as I prefer to call it) The Late Unpleasantness. The US Congress wanted to bring Gen. Lee up on Treason Charges. The judicial process went into action. A War hero from the Union Armies stood up in Defense of Lee. And Prevailed.
Years later the idea of a "treason" Charge would be brought against Lee. This time a President of the United States would go to defense of Lee.
Name the men.
I spent an evening at a party in Washington listening a Senior Professor who was discussing both sides of the conflict. He postulated an interesting fact. If ...and only IF the South had "gained independence" since they really weren't "fighting a civil war" since their intention was never to take over the US Government. But If, they had won. That nasty little war in Europe 50 years later (World War I) might have turned out much differently. The Professor proposed this theory.
1. The South "wins" in essence the agricultural part of the US is now a soveriegn nation. Given the growth of agricultural automation there is a real chance that Slavery would have disappeared in another 20 years just out of the cost effectivness.
2. The First World War starts, now remember the North was heavily Germanic, the South more related to the English/French connections. This would have meant there would be conflicting opinions on HOW to fight the war. Meaning most likely the American involvement might not have happened. The War would have dragged on with the Germans winning, then the British winning, then the French Surrendering until like many european wars it just freaking ended. No Treaty of Versallais no horrendous punishment on Germany/Austro Hungary...and even more improtantly there is a good possiblity the Rail Car with Lenin may never have been sent to Russia.
3. This not being the case the little Austrian Charlie Chaplain imitator would have had no "depression" to slip into power, there is a very real chance World War II might never have happened.
As it was there are some interesting things to remember about the "War of Northern Aggression (LOL)"
1. Unlike other Civil Wars in time there was no Whole Sale Murder of the losing side, sure there were the Carpet Baggers from the north, but what the heck the South got even when we suckered you into electing Jimmy Carter (LOL).
2. The real fact is the common American fought, it was not the "Rich SOUTHERNER" Versus the North. It was the common people and yes the South was decidedly at a loss because they were agriciltural where as the North was Industry.
And now History Buffs.
At the End of ...(as I prefer to call it) The Late Unpleasantness. The US Congress wanted to bring Gen. Lee up on Treason Charges. The judicial process went into action. A War hero from the Union Armies stood up in Defense of Lee. And Prevailed.
Years later the idea of a "treason" Charge would be brought against Lee. This time a President of the United States would go to defense of Lee.
Name the men.
Nils Illegitimi Non Carborundum
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 09:54AM
Date: May 09, 2008 09:54AM
Wouldn't the president be Andrew Johnson?
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: lumberzac (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 09:58AM
Date: May 09, 2008 09:58AM
I'm going to say U.S. Grant.
"As a man tramps the woods to the lake he knows he will find pines and lilies, blue herons and golden shiners, shadows on the rocks and the glint of light on the wavelets, just as they were in the summer of 1354, as they will be in 2054 and beyond. He can stand on a rock by the shore and be in a past he could not have known, in a future he will never see. He can be a part of time that was and time yet to come."
William Chapman White
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Hyway (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 10:03AM
Date: May 09, 2008 10:03AM
I know its been over 140 years, but I refuse to use $50 bills.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: tenjen (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 10:07AM
Date: May 09, 2008 10:07AM
I love history but hate trivia! I always get it wrong. I think it's the working under pressure....
hyway, not holding a grudge are we?
hyway, not holding a grudge are we?
Better to struggle with a sick jackass than carry the wood by yourself
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Gremlin (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 10:10AM
Date: May 09, 2008 10:10AM
Amazing what a Canuck can learn from you guys LOL.
Thanks, everybody, we have everything tied down, even reserved seats in the bleachers for the re-enactment.
I'm looking forward to this. If anybody is going and knows me, we'll have some REAL (Canuck) beer with us - at least in the first hours.
Doug
Thanks, everybody, we have everything tied down, even reserved seats in the bleachers for the re-enactment.
I'm looking forward to this. If anybody is going and knows me, we'll have some REAL (Canuck) beer with us - at least in the first hours.
Doug
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: stratusloop (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 10:35AM
Date: May 09, 2008 10:35AM
Gremlin......if you have the time, take the bus over to the Eisenhower site and do the tour there....its one of those things you file under "while i'm here I may as well do this" sort of thing....
[www.nps.gov]
[www.nps.gov]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2008 10:42AM by stratusloop.
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: lumberzac (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 10:39AM
Date: May 09, 2008 10:39AM
Something tells me Gremlin won't be bringing kids along. It might up the maturity level too much. ;-)
"As a man tramps the woods to the lake he knows he will find pines and lilies, blue herons and golden shiners, shadows on the rocks and the glint of light on the wavelets, just as they were in the summer of 1354, as they will be in 2054 and beyond. He can stand on a rock by the shore and be in a past he could not have known, in a future he will never see. He can be a part of time that was and time yet to come."
William Chapman White
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Re: Gremlin needs help ...
Posted by: Geobeet (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2008 12:27PM
Date: May 09, 2008 12:27PM
Hyway et al,
The shoes angle is myth plain and simple. Heth pushed his division toward Gettysburg as part of a general advance of the ANV. Longstreet's corps was on the road to Gettysburg, so if Lee intended to bypass the town somebody took a wrong turn. Lee himself was on the road. Early had passed through with his division days earlier. Lee's objective was the Susquehanna River opposite Harrisburg of via the bridge between York and Columbia (the one the federal militia burned).
The shoes myth surfaced sometime after the war and was gobbled up hook, line, and sinker by folks of that era. No serious researcher in this day and age buys the shoes myth.
It is a fact that many of the southern soldiers lacked shoes, but most of Lee's Army at that time was fairly well equipped from the march up the Valley into Pennsylvania. Chambersburg's shops were literally ransacked and shopowners paid with worthless Confederate scrip. There was no shoe factory in Gettysburg at the time capable of making enough shoes to fit out Heth's Division.
Buford's cavalry division was in Gettysburg as part of the Army of the Potomac's screen. Cavalry's mission was to screen the army from the enemy's cavalry and to perform reconnaissance. When Meade took command, he pushed both infantry corps and cavalry units in the general direction of Gettysburg.
The worth of Gettysburg was greater than any mere shoe factory. It was a major crossroads, with roads radiating out in all directions. For Lee, he could head east to York or north toward Carlisle and Harrisburg. Heth was the advance element of Longstreet's corps when he blundered into Buford's troopers west of town.
For Meade, the crossroads had a similar connotation. It was a point where he could concentrate his forces if need be or head in whatever direction necessary to intercept Lee.
The best all around book on the battle is this one: [www.amazon.com] by Coddington. It's not the easiest read in the world, but it gives both a solid overview and pretty well researched account of the battls.
The Killer Angels is fiction. The author presents a number of half-baked theories and somehow they get taken as fact. The movie "Gettysburg" is based on The Killer Angels.
I made up the fast food story. It started on a visit to the battlefield, and all the fast food joints on the Emmitsburg Road just sit there on the battlefield, glaring out. They need to take them out and restore that part of the battlefield as they did with the monstrous tower and what is now the old visitor center on Cemetery Ridge.
The Park Service, by the way, is trying to restore old vistas as much as possible. They are removing trees that grew up in the decades since the battle on fields that had no trees back then and planting trees where they were at the time of the battle and have since been removed. It's a long-term project, but eventually the visitor will have a clearer picture of the battlefield.
Also, for those visiting the battlefield, there is a bit of an anomaly between the Confederates position on Seminary Ridge and the Federal position on Cemetery Ridge. From Seminary Ridge, where Lee ordered the attacks on the second and third day, a good part of the intervening valley is obscured by a low ridge. As a result the distance appears condensed - it does not look as far off.
From Cemetery Ridge, you see the entire field. It is a bit higher, so you see it all. Union veterans remarked for years how they watched the Confederates march out across the field, not believing they were making the assault on that field.
Besides Coddington's book, there are many others. Troy Harmon, a park ranger at Gettysburg, has written one where he theorizes that Pickett's Charge was but one of three assaults that Lee hoped would be carried out simultaneously. The others were Johnson's division on Culp's Hill and Stuart was to drive into the federal rear. Had all three assaults happened at one time Meade would have had his hands full.
As it was, Meade made a counter-attack on Johnson, the Union cavalry intercepted Stuart before he got formed up, and the infantry charge on Cemetery Hill was left hanging. Further, other infantry that was to have supported the Pickett/Anderson assault never jumped off. Survivors who made it to the copse of trees wondered what happened to the support.
The shoes angle is myth plain and simple. Heth pushed his division toward Gettysburg as part of a general advance of the ANV. Longstreet's corps was on the road to Gettysburg, so if Lee intended to bypass the town somebody took a wrong turn. Lee himself was on the road. Early had passed through with his division days earlier. Lee's objective was the Susquehanna River opposite Harrisburg of via the bridge between York and Columbia (the one the federal militia burned).
The shoes myth surfaced sometime after the war and was gobbled up hook, line, and sinker by folks of that era. No serious researcher in this day and age buys the shoes myth.
It is a fact that many of the southern soldiers lacked shoes, but most of Lee's Army at that time was fairly well equipped from the march up the Valley into Pennsylvania. Chambersburg's shops were literally ransacked and shopowners paid with worthless Confederate scrip. There was no shoe factory in Gettysburg at the time capable of making enough shoes to fit out Heth's Division.
Buford's cavalry division was in Gettysburg as part of the Army of the Potomac's screen. Cavalry's mission was to screen the army from the enemy's cavalry and to perform reconnaissance. When Meade took command, he pushed both infantry corps and cavalry units in the general direction of Gettysburg.
The worth of Gettysburg was greater than any mere shoe factory. It was a major crossroads, with roads radiating out in all directions. For Lee, he could head east to York or north toward Carlisle and Harrisburg. Heth was the advance element of Longstreet's corps when he blundered into Buford's troopers west of town.
For Meade, the crossroads had a similar connotation. It was a point where he could concentrate his forces if need be or head in whatever direction necessary to intercept Lee.
The best all around book on the battle is this one: [www.amazon.com] by Coddington. It's not the easiest read in the world, but it gives both a solid overview and pretty well researched account of the battls.
The Killer Angels is fiction. The author presents a number of half-baked theories and somehow they get taken as fact. The movie "Gettysburg" is based on The Killer Angels.
I made up the fast food story. It started on a visit to the battlefield, and all the fast food joints on the Emmitsburg Road just sit there on the battlefield, glaring out. They need to take them out and restore that part of the battlefield as they did with the monstrous tower and what is now the old visitor center on Cemetery Ridge.
The Park Service, by the way, is trying to restore old vistas as much as possible. They are removing trees that grew up in the decades since the battle on fields that had no trees back then and planting trees where they were at the time of the battle and have since been removed. It's a long-term project, but eventually the visitor will have a clearer picture of the battlefield.
Also, for those visiting the battlefield, there is a bit of an anomaly between the Confederates position on Seminary Ridge and the Federal position on Cemetery Ridge. From Seminary Ridge, where Lee ordered the attacks on the second and third day, a good part of the intervening valley is obscured by a low ridge. As a result the distance appears condensed - it does not look as far off.
From Cemetery Ridge, you see the entire field. It is a bit higher, so you see it all. Union veterans remarked for years how they watched the Confederates march out across the field, not believing they were making the assault on that field.
Besides Coddington's book, there are many others. Troy Harmon, a park ranger at Gettysburg, has written one where he theorizes that Pickett's Charge was but one of three assaults that Lee hoped would be carried out simultaneously. The others were Johnson's division on Culp's Hill and Stuart was to drive into the federal rear. Had all three assaults happened at one time Meade would have had his hands full.
As it was, Meade made a counter-attack on Johnson, the Union cavalry intercepted Stuart before he got formed up, and the infantry charge on Cemetery Hill was left hanging. Further, other infantry that was to have supported the Pickett/Anderson assault never jumped off. Survivors who made it to the copse of trees wondered what happened to the support.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
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