Re: Soroche: Altitude Sickness

Anyone ever had the pleasure? I've lost 15-20 pounds from not being able to eat and puking up my guts at higher altitudes on several occasions (but what a climb!). I won't deny we were pushing the thin envelope thinner.
>B~o

I'm particularly interested to know how the east-coast flatlanders out there have adjusted to the big mountian altitudes out west. And if you've been high and never had soroche...
don't even want to hear it!

Being from the mountainous state of Tennessee, I've never had problems with altitude out west. I've gone up into the 13's and even 14's without a problem. But that is usually during a longer backpacking trip, so there was time to adjust. Most of the trips I've been on have included some sort of acclimation time like spending the first night at a moderately high trailhead or campground. I just remember to drink lots of water and that usually does the trick.

Soroche? Hmmm, I never even heard of that word. How high (no, not that other high) were you when this happened? i'm reckoning this was on one of your South America expeds around around 20K?

When I went to CO last year, I was concerned about 14K since I was never higher than 6800' before, but with the exception of sucking air, I only suffered from mild headaches. And that could have been from the hard hiking.

Yeah yeah, I know. This does nothing for your original question, but I yam what I yam.

Dat's cool Pennsyclimber, you and Matt opening up discussion, bueno! Si, soroche is the South American term for altitude sickness (AS). Those mild headaches you described may have been the beginnings of AS. I have had headaches between 10-15K, but the real severe headaches and vomiting occured between 12-18K, especially at high camps where we would stay put for a day or two. I've tried Diamox, codeine tablets, and we even tried dexamethasone as a possible preventative for AMS, but it seemed that most everyone in the party couldn't digest the tablets at 18.5K and threw them up (this was under the team doctor's supervision, btw). Matt's got the ticket, slow and steady wins the race. Unfortunately, if you live at sea level and are heading up high with a very limited amount of time, pushing the envelope becomes part of the program.

Bobo - did you guys climb up and then descend to sleep - or did you climb high and sleep high in your acclimitization days?

I've never been above 14,000, and didn't stay there long. This winter I slept at 12,000 or real close to it once or twice with no real noticeable effects, but most of my overnights have been no higher than 10,500.

Acclimitization days were only at the beginning of the trip in town (9K and 12K), once the climbs started it was up, up, and away. Twice, high camp was at 16.5. On Huayna Potosi, I stayed at the 18.5 high camp 2 nights (BIG mistake) because my partner's knees were bothering him and he couldn't descend back to base camp (15.5) on summit day. Brutal headaches for me at those altitudes, had to continually sit up and do purse-lipped breathing while trying to sleep, because the headaches were so bad.

yucky. I've read that in the Himalaya, they (or some) use the 'climb high, sleep low' approach, but I've no idea if that might help.

I've had probs with AS and have done a lot of research. I found some help with ginseng, but don't know what dose to tell you. It somehow affects the aced/base balance, or lack of it, in the brain that you get with hypoxia. Staying over-hydrated is key, which is tricky bcs I found Diamox makes me pee so much! I start to get nauseated around 9-10thou., and this last summer it messed up my JMT hke bcs I live in MD and wanted to shorten my time away from home, so we started at Tuolomne and went right up to 10,000 my first night away from sea level. I was miserable the next day and for the next 2 days and it cost some mileage before I adjusted, which meant adjusting the whole trip. Would have been better to take more time off work and start at the Valley and adjust more slowly. the year before I did Whitney in a day (14+) and didn't have any problem, so I thought I could stay at 10,000the first night. Wrong, but learned a lot. I found drinking energy drinks all day along with water helps--keeping the sugar levels up also prevents the nausea. Oh, also, with the Diamox, on one hike it worked great when I took small doses throughout the day rather that larger ones twice a day. Truth be known, I've talked with anesthesiologists that climb, NOLS instructors, etc. and no one knows all the answers. It also changes hike to hike, so go figure.

sunnydayz, yup, you're another flatlander testing the limits. Some people do just fine, others are incredibly fit and do lousy, no correlation seems to be the current concensus. I'm interested to know if the Eastern US dorks like Roam and Adventurist have gone through any form of longer term acclimitization.

We did the same with taking smaller, more frequent doses of Diamox and I had problems with gatorade and energy mixes at higher altitudes. gut absorption seems to be one of the first body functions to go screwy. Proper hydration is definitely a constant battle. You mentioned ginseng, I've never heard that to effect acid/base (that's exactly what Diamox does). Did you mean ginko biloba? Ginko may help with improving circulation, I took it for about 2-3 months before the Rainier climb last year but really couldn't notice an effect.

Going to Tanzania in June 2008. I'll climb Mt Meru first and then have a mandatory day of rest before starting the Kilimanjaro climb. I was told that climbing Meru first would help me to avoid AS on Kili...we'll see. I have the Diamox but not sure if I want to take it.

My sports doctor told me to take it before starting the climb. The mountain guides say to start taking it when you get the first symptoms of AS. Maybe I won't do either...

Quote:

Pope Bobo
sunnydayz, yup, you're another flatlander testing the limits. Some people do just fine, others are incredibly fit and do lousy, no correlation seems to be the current concensus. I'm interested to know if the Eastern US dorks like Roam and Adventurist have gone through any form of longer term acclimitization.

Your right - i can see no correlation between fitness and acclimitizing - at least up to 14,000 ft. I've not noticed much affect of altitude - provided (and this seems to be the key) that i stay well hydrated. On long strenuous days spent above 10,000, i seem to dehyrdate very quickly and if i'm not careful I'll develop a headache or start feeling a bit nauseous. However as soon as I notice the first twinges, i'll start drinking and almost immediately feel better.

Adventurist seems to have some real problems with altitude - strong a hiker as he is - the elevation really seems to bother him - headaches - bad ones. No matter what he does. It's really frustrating for him.

This is why I want to head up to one of the drive up 14'ers before I slow anyone down on a climb. I do well now at 10,000'ish. I'm just curious to know how I'll do above that.

I hate to say it, but some folks just have a problem with going high. I have a friend who is a doctor and she can't go over 11,000/12,000' without getting really sick. She may have had a medical term for it besides AMS....I'll ask.

It does sound like you're doing and trying all the right things. Perhaps attention to detail (stating hydrated, etc) will help, like Roam suggested. Good luck.

The first time out to CO on the Flattops Wilderness hike I'd gotten a bit of a headache. That may have only been exertion and a touch of dehydration. It cleared up with some aspirin, water, and laying down for a while.

On subsequent trips I find I'm working a little harder on the hike than usual but I'm not significantly impacted.

Taking iron supplements the week before traveling seems to help. As does acclimatizing to Denver for a couple days, and then a night or two at a couple thousand feet higher before the hike.

Other than sucking a lot of wind, I hardly felt it at all on this last trip. :)

Good deal spindle, gradual acclimatization seems to be the key.

msdoolittle, rapid ascent will most certainly give you mountain sickness very easily. There are alot of cases of getting sick quick by either driving up to the top of a 14er, taking the bus up to Machu Picchu, or immediately getting off an airplane pressurized at 5000 feet to a destination above 10,000 feet. If you're hiking partners can't slow down for you, stick 'em in the leg with your trekking pole!
(:`D

It works for me. I wouldn't recommend the iron tho, if you're not anemic.

MsD, for next August, if I stick you in the leg with my trekking pole...nothing personal. ;)

:-o

I don't need any extra appendages coming out of my existing appendages. Thank you. That would makes things slightly uncomfortable.

It would slow you down a little.

;)

lmao

I just read Bobo's whole reply. ;)

The trekking pole in the leg idea is good! :D

But not for you, spindle. :p